I was chased out of the village by a crowd of pitchfork and torch wielding maniacs and then I exploded!!!….Obviously I’m just kidding. Absolutely nothing bad happened. No one shunned me or treated me differently or asked me for money. So, let’s get into what DID happen.
For background, this isn’t the first time I’ve shared my salary with my colleagues. In fact, if someone asks any details about my financial life I’ve always been happy to tell them – net worth, rent price, salary, whatever. Unsurprisingly, people rarely ask in real life.
In contrast to ‘real’ life, I much prefer the lack of hangups the personal finance community has around discussing money. Yesterday I was video chatting with some finance friends and they asked me what my net worth was up to that day ($440K) and cheered me on for my impending $500,000. Such openness, such support – such bliss 😉 .
Sharing Is Caring
Anyway, at my last job before my current one (Company 5), a colleague asked me what I made, I told her and she literally didn’t believe me. She worked double the hours I did and was making half. I told her she needs to ask for a raise immediately or just quit because that’s ridiculous.
A few years later, while working for my current company, I had lunch with a colleague that had recently been promoted to my level. I asked her how the promotion process went and she told me she basically had to blackmail the company to make it happen. They told her no originally, but when she came back with an offer from another company, suddenly they were happy to promote her and give her a raise. They claimed the raise was appropriate for the level and what everyone else was making…it turns out that was a lie.
She asked me my salary and I told her. Even after the promotion she was making $15,000 less than me doing the exact same job. She was understandably pissed that she had been lied to and quit shortly after to join a coding bootcamp program. Now she’s a coder at Amazon making a shitton of money. It made me feel warm and fuzzy that answering a question that’s for some reason taboo in our society, helped someone get out of a less than ideal situation and find a better one.
“A New Dawn, A New Day”
And now we arrive at today. A few months ago I went into work to help a colleague with a project because I like her and want to support her. I was waiting to be filmed for her project and was talking to a different colleague (who is also a friend) who had been recently promoted above my level.
I congratulated her and she mentioned that she was surprised with how little the salary increase was and was awkwardly skirting around numbers while trying to explain what she meant. I straight up told her that if it’s easier I don’t mind discussing hard numbers and that I make $110,000.
Her jaw DROPPED. She has more experience than I do, has been at the company for 5 years to my (at the time) 3 and obviously was promoted above me and even with all that only AFTER the promotion, was making as much as me even though she has way more responsibilities.
She was incensed and shared what I’d said (with my permission) with the other women who happened to be in the office. There weren’t many people there since we mostly work from home, but the people there were pissed. It was a fucking RIOT!
We got to discussing hard numbers and discovered that this colleague, the only other African American in the office, was WILDLY underpaid even after having asked for and received a 9% raise the year before. She was making $25,000 less than me – basically 3/4 of what I was making – for the exact same work.
So I might have accidentally started a riot🥊 at work by sharing my salary & the range for a promotion, which led us to discover:
1. My promoted colleague makes $20K less than she should
2. I am making as much as her despite being a lower level
3. Our company lied to our faces— A Purple Life (@APurpleLifeBlog) December 12, 2019
After revealing all of this, we got to ‘work’. We created a text chain with the three of us to discuss updates to the situation. We had several calls to support each other and brainstorm how they could approach their bosses about these income disparities. We also created an anonymous spreadsheet with our compensation and started circulating it around in case others wanted to join the charge.
After a few months of discussions between these ladies and their managers, they came away with different approaches to the future. I understandably didn’t try to ask for more money since I was surprised to learn I’ve been making more this whole time. Here’s where we netted out:
Woman 1 Update
Let’s call her Woman 1 😉 . She is the one who was recently promoted and is only now making what I make despite being at a higher level. She talked to her boss directly about this income disparity and her boss said she would talk to the leadership team.
Then the boss came back and tried to explain why people are paid vastly different amounts of money despite doing the exact same work…and then gave up when her explanation didn’t make any sense. She then told my colleague to “give me a number” for the salary she wants and that the boss would take it to the leadership team. Apparently even she couldn’t keep up the charade.
My colleague gave her a number, was told that they could move $5,000 of her bonus to her actual salary so it’s guaranteed, but that’s all they could do until September…It was December at the time. I personally thought that was bullshit, but my colleague said she was overall happy at this company and that she’s keeping her eyes open for something else, but that she was ok waiting until September to discuss it further. Alrighty then – it’s her decision.
Woman 2 Update
This colleague does not have as good of a relationship with her boss as the woman above because…to be honest her boss is an asshole. So she met with HR to ask how to best approach him with this salary conversation so he doesn’t revert to his standard defensiveness.
HR gave her some tips. She then met with her boss, was told that she’s been placed on an unofficial performance improvement plan for unrelated reasons (suspicious timing…) and then understandably was over it. She spruced up her resume and is sending it out to find something better.
Random side note: If you want to hear my dulcet tones talking about this situation I discussed it on the Popcorn Finance podcast a few months ago here:
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Knowledge Is Power
Overall, it has been interesting to watch how different colleagues are using this salary information to better their lives or just make informed decisions. For those who are planning to move on, we’ve been sharing resources and job contacts so people can find a great new company.
It felt absolutely amazing to be a catalyst for helping people be compensated properly and get what they deserve for their hard work. Alternatively, seeing someone have all the information available to decide if they are actually fine staying at this company even for less money (like I decided 4 years ago) is cool too. Knowledge is power and I feel good that I was able to help people make informed and calculated decisions instead of ones that feel like a shot in the dark.
The Power Of F.U. Money
One concern that arose when we were discussing salary openly was blowback from the company. Our company handbook actually forbid us from discussing salaries with our colleagues, which I brought up to HR when I started 4 years ago because that’s…literally illegal.
Luckily they changed that recently, but even if they hadn’t, I felt secure in the freedom saving for financial independence gives me. I have the money to fight the good fight and pay legal bills if needed. I have the money to sustain me if they fire me for speaking out. I’ve got F.U. money. So bring it on world!
Have you ever shared your salary with your coworkers? If so, what happened?
Hey Purple! It’s so inspiring to read these stories of yours, and I love that you’re the catalyst for helping people make better and informed decisions about their financial situations at work. 🙂
What made HR change the company handbook on discussing salaries? Was it because you brought it up? Fun fact – My employment contract explicitly forbids me from discussing salaries too. Not sure if they’d enforce it, but I always thought it was such a ridiculous thing to have in a contract.
Thank you Liz! If that’s my only impact during my career I’ll take it 🙂 – it’s better than the alternative of helping companys push not awesome products during my ad agency days 😉 .
I suspect realizing it was now illegal might have done it lol. When I originally brought it up I just mentioned that it goes against everything the company claimed to stand for (and they ignored it), which when it actually became illegal they were motivated to act. And ugh I’m sorry your company does that. That’s messed up.
I never shared my salary with coworkers. I know that there are extreme differences where I work and most probably I’m making more. Since I work for a very small company this would literally cause a riot. This may sound a bit evil but I don’t feel bad for people who are getting less than they should.
Everything is transparent these days. There is a market value for any title, position or whatever. Literally, there are no excuses to getting less than what you are worth. If your research shows you aren’t getting enough then ask for more. If your company won’t give you more, then find someone who will.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that sometimes people are just plain lazy. Do the research and find out if what you are getting paid is fair or not. Are you really waiting for a coworker to wake you up with a slap in the face?
I’ve been thinking about my response to this for a while 🙂 . I don’t think it’s your responsibility to share your salary with your coworkers or help them get paid what they’re worth, but at least in my industry pay is not transparent. That information cannot be found online – only I have posted a salary for my company on glassdoor for example and it displays as a wide range. There are not set titles or roles in my industry that have even a set range of salaries. It’s a guessing game.
Taking it from the angle of the two women I’m talking about here: the fact that (1) is a single mom from another country and (2) is a black woman gave me a knee jerk reaction to “there are no excuses to getting less than what you are worth.” Despite asking for raises as much as men women get them less often (https://hbr.org/2018/06/research-women-ask-for-raises-as-often-as-men-but-are-less-likely-to-get-them). It’s already more difficult for people of color to get hired so just leaving for something else isn’t a simple solution. Similarly it’s not so simple for the single mom colleague whose first language isn’t english (based on what she’s told me of her experience trying to find jobs in the past).
So I don’t think things are transparent in my industry and I wish they were. I also know that my company in particular claims to be transparent and “people first” while they actually lie to people (like my fellow black colleague) about the salary for her position – so she’s told it’s appropriate, believes them and takes it. The other woman wasn’t sure of the appropriate salary for the position when she started and was trying to find anything so she could feed her daughter so she took their first offer – which obviously has cumulative effects after she’s been here for 5 years.
I do think some people could do more research and find out they need to ask for more or leave, but I also think it’s more complicated than that. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Didn’t mean to cause a knee jerk reaction and I definitely get what you are saying. I understand that there are cases in which this is easier said than done, like in the examples you described.
P.S – you would make a fabulous TED speaker 😉
Lol – it’s my knee jerking (not you causing it necessarily) so don’t worry 😉 . And you are very sweet – I hate public speaking (prepping for it specifically), but will keep it on the backburner in case I change my mind in my future life 🙂 .
I stand for this response. Purple! I am so glad I found your blog. I had heard you on a podcast, made a mental note to check out your blog and completely forgot. Then recently I saw your name along with with Rich&Regular in a listicle of awesome Black personal finance/FIRE bloggers to check out and I SCREAMED! I am a (newbie) personal finance writer and I LOVE YOUR BLOG.
I have spent the last two days reading old articles and commenting because it is so damn relatable!
I share my salary, rent, whatever personal finance question people may have because knowledge is power. What I have does not take away from what someone else has. It blows my mind how selfish and individualistic some are.
Thank you! And haha well I’m glad that list reminded you and I’m so happy you’re here 🙂 . Hearing you love the blog makes me so happy! I’m also so glad it’s relatable – I question that myself sometimes 😉 . That’s so awesome you share those numbers with people and this is SO true: “What I have does not take away from what someone else has”!!! Well put!
Ever the badass. Love that you’re using the power of FU Money in this way to lift up others around you.
I was interested to hear Vicki Robin speak during the weekend’s virtual Camp Mustache, saying that those pursuing/achieving financial independence will naturally be looked to as leaders for their personal finance savviness. Having that significant level of financial security means we can move up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs model and concentrate on the self-actualization tip of the pyramid. A large part of getting this fulfillment is by helping others in our communities – exactly what you are doing here in empowering your colleagues with information and encouragement. Keep being transparent and authentic!
Haha thank you lady! And that’s a really great point and definitely seems to be where I’m headed. It’s time to change the world! And I will – thanks again 🙂 .
I’m a firm believer in pay transparency. Women so often get paid less even though we often do more. With transparency we can ask and demand more, or walk away. That all being said I have no problem walking away from a company that doesn’t appreciate me. There are lots of jobs out there.
In my past jobs, pay was so secretive. I mentioned to a guy what I was making (in a range) and he was shocked. He had been working there since college slowly moving up and wasn’t making near what I made (I move jobs). He was pissed. He still works there, but I never learned if he actually asked for more. He won’t leave and they know it.
My current job posts pay (salary plus bonuses) online. I kind of like it. I know what I’m making compared to my equals. I have some leverage to ask for a raise if I’m below others.
Imo, there’s nothing positive for a company listing public salary info unless a company pays what a person should be paid. If they are all about going cheap they want to keep that info silent. For an employee, it’s great information.
Loved this post. Thanks!
Yes yes yes! Without pay transparency (if the information isn’t crowdsourced accurately online which in my industry it is not) back room sharing of salaries is all we have 🙂 . That’s awesome you job hop – I love that life. That’s too bad about your coworker. Do you know why he stays despite knowing he’s being underpaid?
That’s really cool your company posts salaries online! I’m jealous. Definitely agree I can only see a company posting salaries if they’re all fair haha. Being secretive is definitely a red flag for pay disparities. So glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for stopping by!
The coworker that is still working and isn’t willing to leave grew up with parents that went to work at a factory after high school. They still work there thirty years later (and hate it but figure what else). I feel like he thinks it’s important to stick it out and be loyal to the company because they will take care of you in the end. Kind of like his parents.
I personally disagree with that mindset (though it’s prevalent in the south). I figure I am the only one to take care of my self and that businesses are only going to take care of them selves.
Where I am (in the south east) many generations worked at one Mill for their entire lives and the Mill took care of them. That all changed about 20 years ago, but people figure it worked for my grandparents why not me? Either that or they don’t know any better.
It was depressing talking to workers that hated their jobs but figured what else could they do? It was the only factory in town now.
That is depressing, but makes sense. Our parents and community definitely influence our outlook. One of the reasons I’m so militant about companies not caring about their workers is because my Mom feels the same way and saw it play out across her career as well. That instilled in both of us that you should never rely on one boss/company/industry.
Great post. Nice to see real life experience and women helping each other. If you’re interested in salary transparency, you might like Norway’s example – the country publishes everyone’s salary and tax payments each year. (https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40669239) Different place, different cultural values, quite an extreme example of salary transparency. But they’re third in the world for wage equality, soooooo that’s definitely one visible benefit to transparency!
Thanks Claire! And ooh that’s super cool! Thank you for sharing. Another reason I want to move to Europe. I’ll add it to the pile 😉 .
Great job helping your coworkers. That’s a lot of good karma for you.
I worked for a big company and they were a bit more transparent. Every year, we get a printout to show where our pays are within our grades. But you still don’t know what grades your coworkers are.
Thanks Joe! And haha I didn’t think of it in terms of good karma, but I like that! That’s interesting your large company did that – I haven’t heard of that outside of the public sector and they found a way to anonymize it, which is cool if people are wary of putting all their info out there.
I’ve shared salaries with co-workers in the past. Company 1 we were all getting paid the same (except for the one who was contracted out). Company 2, three of us were making roughly the same. The fourth was making almost $10k less a year for the same amount of work. But, he was lazy and a terrible worker, so we figured he was getting appropriately compensated and left it at that. I otherwise love helping co-workers with their pay and retirement savings. People figure out pretty quickly I’m good with money 🙂
That’s so awesome!! And lol on the lazy coworker at the 4th company. You do ooze financial savvy – it’s true 😉 !
These conversations are always wild to me, because I work in the public sector where everything is public knowledge. I’ve even had my name and annual income published in a local newspaper before, so that was interesting to see and compare with others in different roles/departments.
But because of the transparency, sometimes it causes conflict. I should have been promoted 2-3 years before I quit my job with the state, but they couldn’t do it because a certain someone would lose his mind if ANYONE who came in after him got paid more, even though I was more experienced and didn’t get full-time benefits. Dude quit about 5 months later, conveniently because his wife got a job somewhere else.
The public sector sounds so different than private – I am jealous about the transparency. Also I’m glad that dude left and surprised leadership would care what one person in particular thought…this isn’t the playground people!
Hey I recognize one of these scenarios! It’s funny because I did feel kinda weird asking about your net worth even though it’s something you share! And I remember the first time a friend asked me for my net worth I felt super weird about it. But now that we talk about money so much, it gets easier every time. I’m so glad you got to have these conversations to empower your coworkers!
Lolol I thought you might. And good to know you still feel weird about – I’ll pull back on my asking 😉 . And yeah I’m pretty happy with the outcome.
we have a union at my present job i’ve had for 15 years. everybody knows what everyone else makes in my lower role. in the past i had salaried chemist jobs and i quit one when the money wasn’t right. i put it right in the annual review because i have big stones. it went something like “you’re paying these chicken chokers almost twice what i’m making? ok then.” i quit that without anything else lined up because fearless is how we roll in le chateau.
Love the ‘impact’ of those big stones lol. That’s awesome you just told them. Fearless is the way to go!
I think it is a valid strategy to combat inequities and you were wise and compassionate to do it. But I also think that if you are fast tracking your way to the top because you really make the company more money than your coworkers then it could cause problems. I was promoted past a lot of people with much more experience because I made the company more money, and I was paid more than others with the same title and more experience because they weren’t as capable. If one of those people ten years older than me had known I was getting paid more than them it would have hurt their feelings and not helped fix anything. I guess I’m saying sharing salary info makes sense if it helps solve a problem, but in some cases it might just needlessly hurt the feelings of less productive team members? If pay is truly merit and value based then how hard someone works or how much experience they have is not what sets their pay. It is their value to the company. Of course that idea is is often used to hide discrimination because it is hard to prove.
Haha I’m definitely not fast tracking my way to the top 🙂 . I understand the value argument and am not sure if it can be applied to my job simply because in marketing outside of landing an account initially (which is done at higher levels than mine as part of their job requirements) there’s no way we can ‘make’ the company more money. I guess you can maintain an account/not lose it, but it’s hard to prove if that’s because of you or inertia or something else.
The people I shared my salary with work WAY harder than I do so hearing that they made so much less pissed me off – especially when calculated hourly given that they work more/accept more projects/do internal initiatives on top of their regular job etc. If someone was truly less productive I feel like they wouldn’t be offended they make less because they know they’re not working as hard…or maybe that’s just me applying a logical brain to people, which at times is a mistake. Overall though based on my anecdotal experience I do not think pay is currently merit or value based. In my company pay seems to be the least they can pay someone that is competent.
Information asymmetry with pay is more useful for a company than it is for employees. I’ve thought a lot about this topic over the last few years. One of the most challenging pieces to this puzzle is the lack of standardized roles, which helps companies justify pay differences. Or even when you have standardized roles, employees can add or detract additional levels of value (sometimes hard to quantify like improving employee moral, becoming a mentor, etc.). Sharing this idea probably has a net benefit. Although, I’m worried some of your readers will act on this and it might lead to hostile job environments, lost jobs, etc. Still, thanks for sharing!
That’s funny you mention lack of standardized roles. My company has tried to use that excuse for differences in pay despite the roles literally being standardized. We have a rubric of what you should be doing to be doing your role properly and you have to hit that to not be fired basically. They standardize it while claiming it’s not standardized.
Re: your worry: Like everything on this blog – I’m not offering advice (e.g. that someone should share their salary at their job). I’m just talking about my experience. I would be interested to hear if anything negative has happened to someone because of talking about their salary in the past though. I have yet to hear of that happening and am curious.
I’ve had my whole career with my company. When I found out that I was making 25% less than people doing the same job because I was internally promoted, I was pissed! The only reason I stayed was because the salaries and pay structure is the same after the second promotion. Job hopping is the only way to really get a current market salary if there isn’t some type of unified pay structure.
I’ve made it a point to share salary when asked because it’s extremely frustrating when no one will tell you the reality of how much you’ll make for a potential career. Good on you for sharing it!
Ugh I’m sorry. The only reason I can think that company’s get away with paying more for people outside the company is that they think they can get away with it (fear of the unknown from current employees). Yuck. That’s awesome you share your salary when people ask! And thank you 🙂 .
Really great post and refreshing to hear transparency! I read about a company that was transparent about everyone’s salary and it did not go well.
When I’m hiring, I do think there’s more to how much comp to pay than simply the job responsibilities. For many managers, they’re not just hiring the ability to do a job for a certain comp level. Hiring that person is a bet in their potential, that the company is going to invest in, and some will require more time than others. Some have a higher potential once they learn than others – I’ve seen this proved out.
Also, some bring leadership intangibles to the table, or even thought leadership that other departments want to tap into, whereas others just do their job.
In the latter example I referenced, this isn’t something an employee can really impact themselves. Many companies place a high value on employees when others on the leadership team want to tap into their perspective and strategy.
What company was that? I’ve only heard the opposite and would like to expand my example list. And how have you seen people being paid on their perceived potential proved out? Overall it sounds like you speak ‘leadership’ 😉 . Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Thank you for this! My salary has doubled in the last several years and it is in large part because of friends and colleagues being transparent about their salaries. The nonprofit sector I am in is always underpaid, primarily female, and very overworked. As nice as it is to do good in the world, we still deserve livable, market-rate salaries. Cheers to more transparency in the future!
Oh wow that’s amazing! I’m sorry to hear that about your industry, but am happy to hear others are helping each other fight against the underpaid part where possible. “…We still deserve livable, market-rate salaries” – Agreed! And cheers indeed!
I’d be terrified of legal fights. Feels like such a waste of money. Not saying that in regards to your story. Just in general. Thanks for sharing. Quality story, as always…
Yeah I’m not welcoming them by any means, but I feel good that I’m not necessarily afraid of them for financial reasons. I’m so glad you enjoyed it!
Great Post Purple! I agree with more transparency in the workplace. Removing the taboo of talking about pay is a good start!
I’m glad you mentioned the power of F-You Money. I think F-You Money can help both the individual and our society as well.
Employees wouldn’t be afraid to speak up for what is right.
I am glad you were able to promote change in your workplace, it was a very inspiring read.
Thank you! F-U money is indeed a powerful tool and I also think it will help society.