I was conditioned from a young age to defer to authority. “Don’t talk back” and “Because I said so” were common phrases uttered by parents in my house. You did what you were told or suffered consequences.
In high school, I was once again taught to listen to my authority figures without question. “No, deadlines are not negotiable”. “Yes you have to learn X despite it having no practical application to your life.”
So when I entered the workforce I brought with me this deference for authorities, which in this case were my bosses. As I’d learned from my parents and high school, if a boss asks me to do something, I have to say yes.
One obvious problem with this is that work does not have the same clear structure as high school, for example. Instead of deadlines being set and only dependent on you doing the work, jobs have constantly changing deadlines, variables and team members you need to work with.
Always On
This constant coordination seems to cause the boundaries between work and life to blur. In high school I was in class for a set number of hours, then I went home, did homework if I had to, and then did whatever I wanted. At work, my bosses gave the impression that my job was not something that could be shut off. They paid for a work cell phone so we were always reachable by phone or email. Immediate responses were expected – no matter the hour or day (Saturdays anyone?)
Lacking The Ability To Say “No”
If a boss asked me to do something, I always said yes. For example, during the first month of my first job, my SVP stopped by my cubicle at 6pm and told me I needed to watch several lectures that night and summarize them for her before 9am. I didn’t even consider saying no or negotiating what needed to be done. No matter the request, I did it. “Can you summarize these lectures on a crazy timeline?” “Of course!” “Can you plan our holiday party?” “Sure!” “And our summer party?” “Gladly!” “And create and run a cultural program to increase morale in addition to your actual job?” “You betcha!”
Trading Sanity for Money
So obviously, there is another aspect of work that led me to always do what I was told: money. These bosses held the keys to my future in their hands. I needed their recommendations to continue finding good jobs. And I thought to get those recommendations I had to follow them blindly.
Discovering The Ability To Be Myself
Pursuing FIRE has slowly been freeing me from financial worry and interestingly also decreased my deference to authority. I’m trying to do this big, weird thing and it’s caused me to question everything. “What would happen if I say no to this project/client/colleague?” I didn’t realize this was happening until I reflected on how I used to be. Now I say “no” fairly often and I NEVER would have dared to before I started down the FIRE path. I’ve been changing slowly. Here’s how:
PURSUING FIRE YEAR 1
Looking back, changes started almost immediately. I was working with a not pleasant client at Company 4 and after a year of hell, I couldn’t take it anymore. My usual solution would be to find another job and then quit, but instead I did something I never would have dreamed of before. I told my boss that I didn’t want to work with this client anymore. I wanted to be reassigned. At previous companies I thought admitting that I didn’t want to do something or work with someone would be seen as uncooperative and even rude, but even just starting on my FIRE path, I felt comfortable basically saying “no” for the first time. I was training my replacement (to work with that client) 3 months later and then started my favorite job at that time within the same company.
PURSUING FIRE YEAR 2
At Company 5, I started to get the feeling that layoffs were coming. I seem to have developed a Spidey-sense with these things after witnessing so many layoffs and the weird behavior that leads up to them. My final clue was that my boss randomly started trying to push me into another and very different role at the company. Despite the weird behavior and assuming the alternative was being laid off, I politely told her “no.” I did not want to change my career path or my role.
Despite my protestations, she set up a meeting with the head of that department, which I would usually think would be an awkward situation. The department head started the conversation by saying “so I hear you want to change roles” to which I calmly told her “Actually that’s incorrect. My boss wants me to, but I made it clear I wasn’t interested.” I felt no need to cover for my boss or go along with her trying to force my hand. A few weeks later I was indeed laid off (which started an awesome summer of funemployment) and all the people in my role who stayed behind were forced to change their career path and moved (without even asking them) to another company…I’d never heard of that before. Another bullet dodged.
PURSUING FIRE YEAR 3
I was hired at my current company (Company 6) to work full-time for a specific client. The first week I worked with the client she was so rude I actually started crying after I hung up the call. This is not a common occurrence for me. It was only my first week in a new career so I decided to make the most of the situation and reassess in a few months. Luckily, I discovered that I enjoyed the new career, but not the client. She had unrealistic expectations that I could (understandably) never meet. If I gave her exactly what she asked for, it was not acknowledged and instead she would bring up something I didn’t do…because she’d never mentioned it before. She would email and text me nights and weekends and get angry when I didn’t respond promptly, which only happened if I was sleeping (You’re right – how dare I sleep?!).
This was unacceptable behavior. After realizing she was not responding to me setting expectations, I set up a meeting with my boss. I sat him down and told him I didn’t want to work with her anymore…Despite me being hired specifically for her. Ballsy – I know. I wasn’t sure if this would be the end of my new career. I didn’t know if I would be laid off immediately. I didn’t know if there was other work I could even do at the company. There was little I did know at that time, but in the end, I was moved to other projects. I didn’t have to work with her anymore. There was talk of firing her as a client based on her behavior.
PURSUING FIRE YEAR 4
The next year my ballsy-ness seemed to extend beyond major work changes like declining clients. I started pushing back on clients about their insane schedules. In my previous positions, we were taught to do whatever it takes to hit the dates our client provides – to not question it. At all the companies I’ve worked with, doing this would lead to sub-par, rushed work, which in my mind would ultimately cause the opposite of the intended effect: instead of the client being impressed we could hit a crazy deadline, they were underwhelmed because the work was sub-par. So I started pushing back and negotiating for realistic timelines that my team could deliver. As a result, our output improved, my clients seemed to have more respect for my opinion and my team was less stressed and frazzled. Wins all around.
Another first that occurred during this year was saying no to one of the heads of my company. She had dropped a project with a new client on my lap the day before going on vacation. It was a wild 48 hours after I discovered basically nothing she had told me about the client was correct. The scope, deliverables and timeline were all different than she had posed. Unraveling that cluster took up almost all of my time. So when she returned and started praising me for the great work I had done, I had already flagged her as someone that seemed to make more work than needed because of disorganization (or so it seemed). So when she tried to dump a project on me again, I told her no. She replied CCing my boss (good passive aggressive try) and I repeated my decline. My boss never said anything about it.
PURSUING FIRE YEAR 5 (AKA NOW)
And so we arrive at present day. This year I’ve been tackling my biggest issue: Work/life balance. Client service isn’t built on ‘hard skills’ like programming, for example. People thrive in this career by being organized, social and available. The first two items I don’t have an issue with, but constant availability has always been a problem for me.
It’s the opposite of the school schedule I described. There are no set hours and there is no off button. Work is a constant in my life whether I’m actively doing it or just thinking about it. I had bought into the expectation that I need to always be available: able to respond to an urgent question from another country in the middle of the night, able to drop everything and visit a client on short notice.
This year I’ve been experimenting and pulling back in ways that don’t negatively affect my work, but allow me to have a real balance. This year I got my life back. I was able to do this in 2 ways. First, I tackled electronic availability. A few months ago I stopped responding to emails I received late at night or on weekends. I was still reading them (because I was paranoid thinking “Oh no! What if I miss something important?!”) Nothing ever was important enough to respond to. However, despite not actually responding to these emails, just reading them made my brain think about them regardless and re-write the same email in my head a million times. This didn’t give me the “off” time I was craving so I took it a step further. For the last few weeks I’ve been actually turning off my phone notifications on weekends and after hours. Shockingly no one has died. Nothing bad has happened. Instead I feel calmer and more focused than I ever have before.
Second, I tackled physical availability. I work from home most of the time and don’t often have to go to in-person meetings. I’ve been taking advantage of this fact and this year will be working on the other coast with friends and family for a total of 6 weeks. So far none of this time has aligned with days I need to urgently visit a client. Instead of cranking away at work in my apartment by myself or with my partner I get to be surrounded by the people I love, which helps me remember why I’m working at all and why I’m pursuing FIRE. I’m planning to increase my time working from elsewhere further next year. I’m currently looking at 8 weeks. Between that and having actual off hours it feels like my life is my own again.
Conclusion
As many have noted before, the benefits of pursuing FIRE are not just monetary. It’s not just about reaching financial independence or early retirement. Even incremental steps down the FIRE path seemed to have profound impacts on my life. Not only do I feel more financially secure each passing day, but through this journey, I have been able to seriously reflect on what kind of career I want and strive for it instead of being afraid what an authority figure might think.
How about you? Has pursuing FIRE changed how you act at work and in life?
i guess i was lucky for growing up with a particular teacher who told me “sly dog, you might be smarter than some of these other teachers right now.” so i went forth in life questioning everything, especially so-called authority figures and norms. it’s been a good way to live.
it’s good to see a younger person figuring it all out and working from the perspective that the employer is lucky to have you. you don’t have to be abrasive at work like i am but just be polite and firm.
That is so awesome. We need more of those kinds of teachers! I bet I would have turned out a lot different if I had had one…I probably wouldn’t have finished high school to be honest. And yes I feel very lucky I’m figuring this out now instead of trying to live my life for other people/employers. Yeah I veer on the polite but firm section of things. Maybe one day I’ll graduate to abrasive 🙂
As a high school teacher for over a decade, I totally know what you mean about not finishing high school! They’re rare, but especially in the States, I saw at least 4-5 kids a year who were brilliant and wise and would have been served well by grabbing a GED and striking out on their own.
I never told them that outright, but I replied as Freddy above says and did my best to let them know I could see ‘em for who they were. I tried to adjust deadlines and projects and help them see the practical nature of anything we did, and encouraged them to question.
Here in China, my students can’t even grasp not going to college, let alone skipping high school, but there are still some who stand out. I do my best to encourage them. They’re taught not to question in a way, but a few do. I just try to get out of the way and let them think.
Anyhow, thanks for sharing. I’d like to be more assertive too, and your experience is encouraging.
Oh wow – thank you for sharing. I didn’t even think about how other cultures would have a different reaction to these things (which is sad because I took global psychology and that was its whole focus…). It’s awesome you encourage these kids to question and help them see the practical application of what they’re learning. I’m jealous 🙂 . Thank you for stopping by!
I can completely relate to this. A couple of things particularly resonate. The first is that people give you more respect when you push back in a polite and constructive way. I’ve found it immediately moves things from an “adult-child” relationship to an “adult-adult” relationship which then makes the task, whatever it is, much more satisfying and successful.
The second is about setting work-life boundaries. I quite enjoy my job at the moment, but I’m intensely relaxed about being laid off should that happen. That’s almost entirely due to where I am on my FI journey. The way I see it, I owe work my physical and mental energy while I’m on the clock, but don’t owe them that when I’m not. More importantly for me is that I’ve learnt that I NEVER owe them my emotional energy…now that was really liberating!
“I’ve found it immediately moves things from an “adult-child” relationship to an “adult-adult” relationship” – That is such a good way to put it! You’re completely right. Clients usually stop talking down to me and generally consider my opinions instead of dismissing them outright.
So glad you enjoy your job! Not being worried about lay offs is so freeing. I’m with you on conserving physical and mental energy – and am still working on the emotional energy part 🙂 . If you have any tips feel free to let me know!
I admire your drive and your ability to transform your work situation into something that works FOR YOU. I was also in a handful of really toxic work environments (I was in client services too!) until I rage quit my most recent job in May and decided to take a career break. So awesome that once you started being more firm and standing your ground, you gained even more respect from your clients!
Thank you so much! I’m trying lol. I’m so glad you got out of that toxic situation. Nothing is worth the toll that takes. It’s awesome you’re taking a career break! I’m excited to check out your site and follow your journey. And yeah with the clients – it’s just my impression, but it’s hilarious how that’s the exact opposite of the advice I was always given in my career. Fascinating. Thank you for stopping by!
Thanks for sharing your experiences creating better work/life balance!
I have been very critical of authority in my life since high school, but breaking out and doing what I want has taken longer. I’m doing it now, though! I typically do what I want first and then talk with my boss about it as opposed to “asking permission.” It’s worked out well. My boss knows I think everything through before I do it–so he trusts me–and that is amazing.
No problem! It’s crazy how a person can change. That’s awesome that you’ve always been critical of authority and congratulations on breaking out! Haha I love the ‘ask for forgiveness, not permission’ road. That’s amazing that you found a boss that trusts you like that! Thank you for stopping by!
I am not pursuing FIRE right now. I’m too busy trying to find a permanent full time job first, then I’ll try to balance tacking my debt and preparing for my future. But wow, you really make a strong case for FIRE!! How liberating it must feel to be able to say “no” at your job without trembling in fear of the repercussions! That is definitely something I want to work towards 🙂
That makes total sense! Sounds like an awesome action plan too. And yeah I was surprised about these non-monetary benefits of FIRE! I’m sure you can get there even before getting there. Even having an emergency fund seems to be enough to change behavior in people. Good luck!!
Great topic!
I can really relate to this especially that it also slowly been freeing me from financial worry and decreased my deference to authority.
It really brings life into another perspective 🙂
So glad you enjoyed it and that you can relate! Thank you for stopping by.
I wouldn’t mind the extra work if the employer came through and actually provided the opportunity they disingenuously promised during the hiring process.
Sounds like a specific situation 🙂 , but I’m with you. I’d happily add to my plate if I was actually getting compensated for it (instead of being expected to do a million extra things for the same salary). I hope you get what you were promised.
As long as the rejection is respectful and reasonable. If not ya become the reason the old timers say the young ones have no work ethic or drive.
I tell all the folks I counsole on careers, if you aren’t happy at job 1 cause, hey they suck or are mean… same thing at job 2, then the trend continues at job 3. The problem is what they have in common.
Yep – of course. I’m always polite about it. Personally I haven’t had the same issues at multiple jobs so I guess I’m not the problem 😉 .
Great read, it puts into perspective and focus a lot of what I am experiencing at my current job. I’ve always been very firm and willing to say “No” in previous jobs. I’ve lost myself a little here and reading this put the focus back on why I’m feeling these negative emotions about this job.
TL:DR = Thank you for sharing and for the concrete examples, it has helped me to gain perspective on my current situation.
So happy it could help! It’s easy to get caught up and just go with the flow. It’s happened with me a lot (obviously 🙂 ). Let me know how it goes after changing a few things!
As someone who’s also in Client Service — currently on Year 4, 26 years old, recently experienced a layoff, and currently funemployed — I have to ask about job hopping. I find that many interviewers view me as “too young”, and “not senior enough.” Can you provide insight on how you’ve sold yourself throughout job hopping? Client Service, to me, is something that comes naturally and is the same at most companies (just different clients, projects and strategies) so it baffles me when future employers don’t think I can do the job and do it well. I know fully well I’m worth 85K and would love to be on the 6 figure path before 30, but feeling conflicted on how best to present my worth.
Hi There! Have they told you that you’re specifically “too young” and “not senior enough” and if so, for what exactly? A specific position? I haven’t encountered any of that myself so I don’t think I can provide tips for that specific situation.
Every company I interviewed with in NYC and Seattle knows the value of client service. Are you in a smaller city? I talk in this post (https://apurplelife.com/2019/01/29/how-i-made-six-figures-by-27/) about how I got to 6 figures by 27 and what I think I did differently.
As for how I sell myself when interviewing: I just talk about my experience – I don’t do anything fancy. No one has ever asked about my short duration at jobs. In fact I was speaking to a few people at my current job today and they mentioned that they’re interviewing someone and that it’s a red flag that they have been at their current job for 5 years (because that’s too long/looks stagnant). If you want to chat more about this feel free to email me with more details. Happy to help if I can!
Interesting about the 5 year red flag! Yes, I have heard the words “not senior enough” for an Account Supervisor position.. I’m currently at Account Manager level so it really wasn’t too far off. I found it odd, but it could’ve been a cover up for another reason they may not have liked me. I’m currently in the Fort Lauderdale area but open to any positions in the South Florida area.
I had a feeling job-hopping was the way to go before taking my last job (I was there for 2.5 years) and the reason I wanted to leave in the first place. Trying to convince my boss to give me a raise for the work I’m already doing is like talking to a brick wall! Glad to see you’ve confirmed that.
That’s strange. In a few of my jobs “AM” and “AS” were interchangeable titles. I would suspect “not senior enough” was a cover up because it’s a non-answer. The only way to be “senior enough” is to already have the position…Good luck convincing your boss! And if they continue to act like a brick wall hop on out of there 🙂 !
Haha this is awesome. It’s funny how something as simple as currency can be so empowering.
I love the growth of breaking free and taking control over the years. From year 1, simply saying no, to year 5; literally taking control and shaping your availability the progression is great to see.
I’ve been feeling the same way in my job even in the military. Usually we need to set ourselves apart to promote. When I started pursuing FIRE I realized I didn’t need to promote anymore…..I could just enjoy my job without all the politics. It has since been a breath of fresh air saying no to people that want me to overextend myself to look good for promotion boards. The diminishing returns at my level of promotion are disgusting. I’m not sacrificing my family anymore for an extra $300 a month….. im still going to do my job and do it well, just no more falling on swords to make myself standout.
FIRE is truly empowering and it can’t be unseen.
Haha yeah it’s pretty ridiculous. That’s awesome you realized you don’t have to keep chasing that (seemingly) eternal promotion ladder. And YES to ALL of this “I’m still going to do my job and do it well, just no more falling on swords to make myself standout.” It truly is 🙂 .
“In high school, I was once again taught to listen to my authority figures without question…So when I entered the workforce I brought with me this deference for authorities”
The fact that they teach calculus and British Lit in high school but not personal finance makes me wonder sometimes: is this the TRUE goal of the public education system?…
Sounds like a conspiracy theory, but still…I wonder.
It is VERY suspicious…it’s almost like they make more money if we’re financially illiterate 😉 .
I keep having to tell myself: “Nah, that’s a weird conspiracy theory.”
But it begs the question of who designs the curriculum? A: a combination of teachers, the local or state department of education, and the district’s board of education. And a board of education sounds an awful lot like a corporate boardroom: https://www.vvsschools.org/Page/2440#:~:text=A%20school%20board%2C%20often%20referred,district%20that%20the%20board%20oversees.
And who sits on these boards of education? A: Elected officials. In many cases, retired or semi-retired businesspeople from the community (or their spouses).
Do businesspeople want smart, money-savvy employees to retire early? Or *gasp* open their own competing businesses instead?…
Like you say: suspicious. I still think my theory is a little bit nutty…but on the other hand, how many school districts actually teach students how to manage their money?
As I look around my workplaces over the years, I’ve begun to realize just how few even know what a 401k is, let alone how to invest with best practices. Too many people just pick a fund seemingly at random–if they even invest at all!
And it would be SO easy to cure this at the high-school level.
I’m with you on the conspiracy theory 🙂 . It seems like a lot of money is made from our financial illiteracy. I also suspect the origin of public schools is to keep kids ‘off the streets’ instead of actually educating them (this is just based on observation and what they do include in the curriculum, which seems to be able memorization and passing test, not actual learning/critical thinking.
I try to talk myself out of the conspiracy theory–but like you say, there’s a lot of people making money off of people’s financial illiteracy. Maybe it’s less of a conspiracy and more a matter of misaligned interests: https://www.centerforfinancialinclusion.org/what-do-we-mean-by-aligning-interests.
You may be right–school as state-funded daycare, to keep kids out of trouble. I do think that plenty of educators care about students, but it’s tough to manage a whole classroom AND figure out how to get them all really engaged in the subject.
And, of course, teachers also have to deal with curriculum design and department meetings and student-teacher conferences and all the other stuff that distracts from actually educating. It can be a difficult balance to strike.
I think I grew to distrust authority at a pretty young age, but I still followed it, which created a lot of misalignment for me–I think there’s a better word for it but I can’t think of it right now.
I’ve worked for my employer for 18 years adn in that time I slowly started to do things my way. Most of the time I just don’t tell any body. I serve my clients, and I know what I do works for them.
Most recently I have been more upfront about not following rules. I don’t outright say, “I’m not doing this thing.” Rather, I say what I am doing and why, and it does’nt always align with what I am “supposed” to be doing.
Ok even more recently, I asked my boss what consequences would be for me not doing a certain presentation. I told him it’s not likely that I will want to face those consequences (I’d likely do the presentation), but I wanted to know. He told me I didn’t need to do it. Score.
A huge challenge I have–as do other teachers who have posted here–is that I am an authority figure. Every boundary I have for students though is well-thought-out and I explain it and it’s kind of flexible if other things are goign on (like if the student is learning in a different way). I also try to share power with students and hope to have a discussion with them about “power with” vs. “power over” now that we’ve been in the semester for a bit. We’ll see how it goes.
Julie
That’s really interesting to hear. I love the idea of “power with” instead of power over. I wish more authority figures approached it that way. Also I love how you’re doing things your own way and discovering that some ‘mandatory’ things actually aren’t 😉 . That’s some awesome freedom right there!
“I think there’s a better word for it but I can’t think of it right now” Perhaps the term you’re seeking is ‘cognitive dissonance?’ https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-cognitive-dissonance-2795012