Surprise! I’m going to interrupt our regularly scheduled Tuesday posts to give you this bonus ‘episode’ that details my first and last exit interview. And no, just because I’m retired, that does not mean I’m doubling up my posting schedule – we’re still sticking to every Tuesday. Don’t be greedy ๐ . But if at times I’m too excited to sit on something you may get an extra post here or there…no promises though ๐ . I’m still all about that #SlugLife.
I’ve never had an exit interview before. Despite having worked at 5 companies prior to this one, I’ve never been asked. Though that might have been a good thing since I also had not reached my current level of DGAF status and was worried how I would react when asked point blank about work dynamics.
But I’ve always been curious about exit interviews and was told by my Mom, who worked in HR most of her career, that they are basically hollow wastes of time because an HR department’s job is to protect the company, not the employees. For this reason I was told that any issues you bring up won’t necessarily create any change and may just make you look like a whiner or not a team player on the way out and burn bridges as a result.
So I went into this exit interview planning to keep up the regular professional facade I always have – as a calm, straightforward person who sounds cheery and smiles, even when I feel anything but joyful. The only topic I told myself I would actually be honest about was if they asked me about my experience as one of the only people of color at the company. Then the interview came. So, did I stick to the plan?
LOGISTICS
First, the HR rep dove into the logistics of me leaving – interestingly these were all things I had already asked around about and sorted out myself ๐ . I told her that I had already gotten a FedEx label from the Accounting department with a pre-paid laptop shipping box (a ‘fun’ story about that will come later) and confirmed that I will receive health insurance until the end of October.
I also asked when I would receive my final paycheck and my payout for the PTO I didn’t use. Since I didn’t use any PTO this year, I’m looking forward to making it raaaain ๐ . She also asked me if I had a key card for our co-working space and I said no. Though the real truth is that when we left Seattle, I ceremonially threw it in the garbage knowing that I would never set foot in there again. But instead I said it was lost in the move…oops! That’s as close to lying as I’ve gotten recently.
DISCUSSION
Then we got into the meat of the conversation which was disappointingly shallow. She said that they do exit interviews with everyone that leaves the company, which raised some red flags for me because we have A LOT of turnover and if they perform exit interviews with everyone, they would know of the many issues at our company that caused them to leave.
And if they took that feedback to heart the toxic individuals that are responsible for those people quitting, would not still be around – let alone promoted multiple times during the last few years. So I was not hopeful for this conversation being the agent of change that I hoped for.
Unsurprisingly, her questions were weak sauce. She asked why I was leaving and what I was doing next. I gave the usual vague answers – that I’ve stayed at the company much longer than any other and I’m ready for a break. I said that next I’m going to take some time off and travel when it’s allowed.
One thing I didn’t expect from HR was that she asked “Is there anything we could have done to keep you here?” That question made me pause and I was honest. I said greater transparency within the company, the promotion my boss started dangling in front of me a year ago and more money. To explain that last part I said point blank “Everyone likes money” ๐ .
Then she asked what I liked most about working at the company and I immediately responded “my boss.” He really was the main reason I’ve stayed this long. He left me alone to do my thing (the opposite of a micro-manager), but if I ever needed him he was there, offering to help.
He also didn’t at all mind getting his hands dirty to get the work done, which is a trait I haven’t found in any other executives I’ve worked with. He also talks to me like an adult. He asks if I want to do something or take on a specific project and listens to my answer instead of just telling me what to do. He was a great boss.
In the end, she told me “We’d love to have you back” and told me to reach out to her or my boss if I ever change my mind about working there. Then we had some fake chit chat about her experience in a few countries I’m hoping to visit in the future before hanging up the call. And that was it. My first and last exit interview and I must admit I was underwhelmed.
So I was completely honest, but they only asked softball questions like what I liked most about the job, what I would change and if there's anything they could have done to make me stay. Nothing about the microaggressions that are running rampant or being the only POC for years. pic.twitter.com/jISzDhB4vN
— A Purple Life (@APurpleLifeBlog) October 1, 2020
THOUGHTS
I’m not exactly sure why I expected more, but I did. I know in many ways that this company was all talk, but I thought they would at least use the opportunity to talk to someone before they leave the company to its fullest, especially someone with a unique experience or a record number of years there such as myself, but no. It was all shallow questions that could have gone unanswered.
I think I’m frustrated because when I joined the company four years ago, they seemed to walk the talk. If they said they cared about something they meant it and made it happen. Now that we’ve grown almost 4x as large, that is not at all the case. Lately it seems like every time an issue is brought up, leadership gives political answers while claiming to value transparency and inclusivity.
For example, in response to employees raising concerns about microaggressions happening against the few POC at the company, leadership said they cared and would do something about it…and then themselves normalized and perpetuated the same bad behavior.
When Black Lives Matter protests swept the nation, leadership decided to create a diversity committee…and reached out to me and the 2 other POCs to join it. So you want me to do MORE work for free to stop you from doing something bad? I declined. It was so frustrating.
UPDATE: I told them no. Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. I'm now working with the other 2 POCs to see what they want to do and gather questions we should ask the company about this committee.
— A Purple Life (@APurpleLifeBlog) June 11, 2020
Also, just a heads up companies: changing your logo to the pride flag does not mean you’re inclusive. Saying you value transparency and then actively fighting against employees knowing others salaries means you do not actually value transparency.
This company has done both. They have actually refused to release salary bands for our positions when asked directly. They claim these bands exist and are appropriate based on several factors they decided behind closed doors…*cough* bullshit *cough*
I expected more. I guess I was holding out hope that in those last moments, I would see a glimmer of the wonderful place this company used to be, but instead I was left looking at a hollow shell of its potential.
LAST CONTACT
To not end on that depressing note, I would love to relay what happened when I tried to return my work laptop ๐ .
As the only bloggerย swag tote that made the nomad packing cut, @BitchesGetRich is helping take my work computer to FedEx and ship it back to my company. I wanted to throw the laptop onto an open flame in celebration๐ฅ, but that might cause an explosion so this will have to do๐คฃ. pic.twitter.com/7XtA5YGQZw
— A Purple Life (@APurpleLifeBlog) October 2, 2020
I was all packed up and ready to go. I had psyched myself up for being inside a building with others that wasn’t a grocery store. I had the shipping label all ready on my phone. Everything was prepped. And then I got to the front of the FedEx line and was told that what the Accounting department said about the pre-paid label including laptop packaging materials was incorrect.
We had to involve the FedEx manager. I emailed the Accounting department even though it was before 9am on the west coast and was faced with the possibility of paying $30 to send back my computer with no guarantee of reimbursement…or with the opportunity to take home a free laptop ๐ .
In the end, the FedEx employees were able to help me out and they even packed up the laptop for me! Crisis averted, but I found it humorous that, of course, the last contact I had with this company was anything but smooth sailing ๐ . It was a lovely microcosm of my experience working with this company: incorrect, miscommunicated and confusing. But whatever. It’s done.
Conclusion
While my first (and last) exit interview was underwhelming, it was good to see that I haven’t been missing out on anything at my other companies ๐ . It almost felt like we were checking a box so they could say they do an exit interview with everyone that leaves instead of using the opportunity to learn and find ways to improve our company. For various reasons, I think my former employer is going to crash and burn and based on how they have strayed from their own values over the last few years, I’m ready to watch it happen.
Have you ever done an exit interview? What was it like?
This sounds SOOO much like the last full time job I had where I sort of engineered a layoff. It’s toxic beyond belief (still is), TERRIBLE glassdoor reviews, the president is a bully and pretty much the main reason that the company is awful, and HR is pretty much in bed with him. It’s sad no one ever listens to the employees. If it was one or two people who complained, then maybe they were the problem, but when it’s literally EVERYONE over the lifetime of the company??? Clearly the problem starts at the top! Glad you had a good boss though!
Ugh I’m sorry you experienced that, but so glad you got out – and engineered a layoff! That’s so awesome. And ugh – yes some problems indeed do start at the top, especially if they keep promoting the problem people – which is what happened in my company. I was mostly shielded from it because of said boss so that was a bright spot through it all.
I did exit interviews with a lot of my direct reports. I’m not sure they accomplished much, I usually already knew their motivation and likes and dislikes because we worked together. What kind of manager is clueless about how their team members feel about their jobs? Not a very good one, for sure. A few times they pointed out things I could try to fix but usually it was about going somewhere with more opportunity, or leaving for a city instead of our rural location or moving closer to family. Those are great reasons, I was happy they were taking action to improve the quality of their lives.
That’s awesome you personally did exit interviews with your reports. That seems more helpful than an HR stranger doing it.
It’s a shame that Exit Interviews never seem to actually serve their purpose. I left a horrifically toxic company a couple of years ago but felt like I just had to bite my tongue through the interview or else risk losing them as a reference – which is I think what most people worry about.
Yeah it seems like more corporate theatre. And totally fair – that’s what I worried about at previous companies so I would have bit my tongue if they had even offered an exit interview.
Honestly never had an exit interview and for the two years I was a manager never had to give one.
Then again Iโm only on my third company. I exited voluntarily from the last two immediately before mass layoffs so I suspect they had their hands full with other things. (I was not laid off but even before they were announced I knew the ship was sinking)
Interesting to hear my lack of exit interviews isn’t as rare as I thought! I’m glad you got out before the ships sunk.
I spent nine years with the first company I worked for, *ahem* a massive aerospace manufacturer in the PacNW, and when I decided to leave a few years ago I was DONE. So much about the culture was terrible and getting worse. I didn’t pull any punches during my exit interviews – I had one with my director and one with HR. I WANTED to burn the bridge, in case some day I’m crazy enough to want to go back there. I looked at it as protecting my future self ๐
Hmm I think I know of the company you speak ๐ . I’m sorry the culture was terrible and declining – ugh. That sucks, but it’s awesome you here honest during the exit interview!! And haha I love the reasoning – amazing.
Not to sound too condescending, I am so friggin proud of you!
I heard something the other day that was a little morbid, but it stuck. If or when you die, your job will be posted before your obituary.
I hate my job so much I spend every day working on a plan to leave.
Haha unless I’m missing something that doesn’t sound condescending at all ๐ – thank you! And that is so very true. My company’s reaction when one of my colleagues was hospitalized for COVID proved that quite well (they told her to keep working…from the hospital). I’m sorry you hate your job, but it sounds like you’re using it to fuel something great.
All of my exit interviews have been pretty underwhelming; the only reason I remember my last one is that it was only a few months back. The rest have faded into obscurity. I can’t tell you how many I’ve had, but it was a few. As your mom put it, they are essentially a waste of time.
The only reason I can see for them to exist is to check about any possible liability coming the companies way. Beyond that, most companies are either delusional about their culture or well aware of its quirks and are simply going to deal with them.
Good to know my Mom isn’t full of it ๐ . The liability angle is interesting. I assumed if someone was going to sue they wouldn’t mention it in an exit interview to give them a heads up. My previous company seems to be a combination of both examples you mentioned unfortunately.
I’ve only had one and I was pretty frank in it in a futile attempt to protect my people I was leaving behind but… Futile. It’s been nice seeing small tidbits that show that my ditching that company for another one, which seemed risky at the time, was both very worthwhile and I’ve benefited in so many ways from doing so, financially and health wise. It makes no sense to be doing these at all if they’re just a waste of everyone’s time as they so often are.
Ugh I’m sorry it was futile. I’m so happy moving worked out well! And agreed – exit interviews seem to be the cherry on top of useless work theatre.
When I left the Empire… ahem, I mean, Gannett, I knew for sure I would never ever come back. I took a new job and announced my resignation right before everyone was about to be required to reapply for Gannett’s new, Orwellian-named positions.
So, I let them have it. I told them exactly what I thought about the company, how ridiculous it was that they spent no time on efficiency in a time when resources were scarce, that instead of wasting time on their worthless initiatives of the week, they could put resources into helping reporters gather news, because… and apparently this is a shock… readers expect to learn about local news in their local newspaper. I pointed out all the ways time was wasted, ways to align toward the core mission better, and what I’d heard from readers about what they like and dislike.
I did this as a catharsis. I was under no illusion anyone would read this and give a banana about anything I had to say. And I was right. The local Gannett dailies in our area are mere shells of themselves, and the company is a ghost ship floating into a hurricane. No one reads them anymore because there are barely any writers left (there are fewer reporters than their are papers in that region), and thus, no local news.
It was sad to see my former colleagues have to reapply for bullshit job titles. Most have left the industry entirely. And amazingly, new streamlined local ventures have popped up in these areas delivering… wait for it… local news. Who would have thought of such a thing?
So that was a long rant, but all to sum up that I did thoroughly enjoy the opportunity to, in a professional manner, say “you’re all a bunch of idiots and here is why” on the way out. Maybe I had a glimmer of hope that someone would listen, but your mom is right. It’s usually corporate box checking. Too bad – there’s a lot they could probably learn from the data.
Lol on the Empire! And all of that sounds horrible – awesome you got your catharsis even if nothing came of it. I am curious why even smaller companies seem not to care (like my former employer). They’ll crash and burn as they get bigger if they don’t fix these issues…but then again, maybe it’s about the money they’ll make in the meantime instead of the hellish corporate culture they’re creating. Siiiigh
This was a super interesting read for me because I am preparing to leave the company I’ve been with for 11 years in the next month and I am struggling with whether to be honest or not in my exit interview. I’ve contemplated asking if I could respond myself, in writing, instead of being interviewed so that I can clearly articulate my thoughts vs having them interpreted by a colleague, but wow, what a lot of work for a company I’m ultimately leaving.
But, I’ve seen the aftermath of many of these and even when hard working and dedicated employees gave them constructive and actionable feedback, they still found a way to blame the employee and turn everything around on them. I’ve heard so many times that people who left were “ungrateful” or “whiners” when I knew them to be anything but.
I really feel that my best bet will just to say thanks for letting me grow up here and wishing them all the best since I know they will absolutely not take any of my constructive criticism to heart
It always strikes me as hilarious that they even bother to do these since everyone knows they’re a joke!
Happy to help when it’s relevant. Good luck with your exit! How they have talked about employees providing exit interview feedback in the past is disconcerting – because of that I agree with your approach. It doesn’t sound worth your time. And there are so many things about corporate work that everyone knows is a joke, but still happen that it boggles my mind.
Same… since I was a director at my last job, I knew these were useless and frustrated that information provided was not utilized at the company. I was honest. Professional, but honest, and did explain that the lack of transparency, diversity, and consistency in employee and corporate goals contributed to my decision to leave. I doubt it resulted in anything, so frustrating. Interesting – and depressing – to know this is a common experience in other companies ๐
Thank you for sharing.
Of course! I’m sorry to hear that your experience was similar – and that because of your level your already knew exit interviews weren’t used for anything productive. Such a waste.